[eu-gene] Generative music discussion

[Edo Paulus]

Well,

Not realy a big discussion yet , eh?
I'm a bit into it, let me try to say something.

On vrijdag, maa 5, 2004, at 15:54 Europe/Amsterdam, Jim Andrews wrote:

>>
>>> 1) I believe there are limitations in generative music in terms of 
>>> the
>>> listening experience.
>>
>> What sort of limits do you think obtain?
>
> I'm thinking about how generative music fails to be interesting or 
> engaging for the audience. Especially when the spectators are 
> untrained in the intricacies of computers or composition.

Generative (automatic) music is aestheticly seen different than 'human 
made' music. To emulate human behaviour through automated processes is 
for me something very unelegant. There have been algorithmic music 
result based on analisis of humanmade performances/compositions and 
then resynthesis-with-variations of these human actions. Emulation in 
general is actually something unelegant. It's not the real thing. It's, 
at its best, practical. Anyway, the intention of making generative 
music is different from humanmade music, the process is different from 
humanmade music, thus, for it to be elegant, it should also have an 
other aesthetic.
To make good generative music (aesthetical(def: "relating to pure 
beauty rather than to other considerations" 
(from:www.wordreference.com)) one must recognize, respect and utilize 
the intrisic aspects of algorithmic systems. And out of that will 
follow elegant aesthetic characteristics of generative music. One must 
experiment and venture into unknow, since generative music is 
relatively new and needs exploration.
I think the limitations you are talking about are mostly on the side of 
the spectator and maybe also on the side of the 
composer/programmer/performer, not so much on generative music itself.
Limitations, as opposed to unlimited possibilities, are offcourse there 
(in generative music). As there is in everything 'real'/material. And 
that is good.


>>
>>> 2) Interaction and collaboration could provide strategies to enrich
>>> generative music.
>>
>> I agree. Set a program off on its own and you wander or it wanders or
>> whatever.

I guess you both are talking about generative music in a performance 
context. It depends very much on what your intentions are and what the 
expectancy of an audience is. In a performance context there is a 
certain expectancy of the audience (nowadays at least) which pure 
generative/automated music often can not satisfy, yes. A 
(sound)installation situation changes this expectancy. There, wandering 
is much more easily accepted. In a performance situation interaction is 
a way to go, yes.

Collaboration? Between what? What do you mean?

>>
>>> 3) How can interaction and collaboration lead to a more engaging 
>>> musical
>>> experience?
>>
>> There are all sorts of pieces that do this. Recently I saw Steve 
>> Gibson's
>> piece Virtual DJ. You carry a sensor in a space and change the audio
>> depending on the position of the sensor. Two performers, usually; one 
>> does
>> 'drums' and the other does 'melody'. Very cool. And the lights follow 
>> the
>> performers and change gobo etc in an effective way in reaction to the 
>> sensor
>> location also. This gives the performance an interesting visual 
>> aspect to
>> the audience, and it's a great experience for the performers.

I wonder if this 'new' way of making music also results in 'new' 
characteristics of the music. In other words, is the music you hear 
different from what you're familiar with BECAUSE of this new way of 
performing? To me, again, that would be elegant. Or is the musical 
result very much familiar and is only the performance different? In 
that case I would say the performance and the music are not very deeply 
crossconnected. Yes, there is interaction and it is clearly 
recognizable by the audience, but it's a very one-on-one thing. ("look 
mom, without hands!")

>>
>>> 4) What are the limitations of interaction and collaboration
>>> within a live
>>> musical environment?
>>
>> I think it's probably more productive to specify what types of 
>> limitations
>> (or concerning what aspects of the event and experience, etc) you're
>> wondering about, because most every sphere of anything has 
>> limitations.
>>
>>> 5) Can composition be seen as a live process?
>>
>> Jamming has been known to be compositional, yes.

Using generative music systems in a live situation is of course 
possible. For the performer this comes with letting go of full control 
over the result, to some degree. The generative music system then also 
has influence on the musical result.
........ well, i'm getting out of time.
good luck.

Edo Paulus.
_________________________________________________________________
 
  E d o   P a u l u s
   generative music, soundinstallations, performances.
  URL: http://eude.nl
 _________________________________________________________________

>>
>> Nice to augment it with recording and editing capabilities, on the 
>> spot, if
>> possible (it is).
>>
>> ja
>> http://vispo.com
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> "I would hate to learn that he was actually trying to get published."
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