[eu-gene] Re: Re: Generative or not?

[thompsotd at mac.com]

I believe that the "apparent author" of a work  may have the  
intention of choosing whether to use computer generated randomization  
or other such processes either to "problematise" the issue of the  
locus of authorship, or in such a way that does not cede any of that  
authority.  I suppose it may be argued to what extent that intention  
might be accurately realized, but I believe that most "authors" who  
do this believe strongly in the distinction.  I am interested in  
using these techniques in such a way that, at least, calls the  
concept of authorship into question, or at best, carefully rebalances  
it.  I also use randomization in such a way that (in my estimation)  
in no way compromises my own sense of authorship.

Tim

On May 10, 2006, at 5:09 PM, Jim Andrews wrote:

> I use randomization as the need arises. For instance, in games to  
> make game
> play vectors less predictable or to generate (almost certainly  
> unique) ID
> numbers or names. I can't think of a case where I used it to  
> problematize
> authorship.
>
> It seems to me that randomization usually provides minor variation.  
> Not to
> say unimportant variation. But minor in the sense that the major  
> variations
> in a work do not come so much from randomization as structural  
> design. You
> might use randomization to choose among several fundamental structural
> designs, but it isn't the choice that enables the variation here so  
> much as
> the existence of the several fundmental structures. So that, in  
> this case,
> one wonders sometimes whether to cycle through them or to select  
> among them
> randomly.
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>
>
> -- 
> 'randomnumber = lastrandomnumber * 6364136223846793005 + 1'
> To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
> http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene

>> I would argue that authorship is the issue. Art is generally  
>> concerned with
>> issues around what it is to be human. Ontology, in short. The  
>> reader's take
>> on an artwork is heavily conditioned by, even primarily defined in  
>> relation
>> to, how they conceive of or identify the author. The artwork is  
>> received
>> with an expectation of expression, of somebody having intent to  
>> communicate
>> something. In Freudian terms, the author and reader are involved in
>> something similar to a process of transference. They construct  
>> themselves
>> relative to one another.
>>
>> To problematise this through using compositional and conceptual  
>> processes
>> that are not directly under the control of the apparent author  
>> (random
>> systems, for example) can allow the dynamics that underpin what it  
>> is to
>> make and intepret art to be unpacked. The reader's expectation of  
>> the work
>> is denied and in their confusion as to where it is coming from  
>> they face
>> potential desublimation and possible catharsis. Once rendered  
>> uncertain and
>> exposed to question the processes of making and reading can be  
>> developed
>> within a critical framework.
>>
>> Many artists in diverse mediums have used this strategy. It can be  
>> found in,
>> is even a defining trope of, current post-modern practice,  
>> modernist work
>> and even the pre-modern (famously Da Vinci's technique of randomly  
>> applying
>> dirty undercoat from which he would develop a composition  
>> suggested by the
>> underlying textures and structures). I will not run through a list of
>> artists as the approach is so pervasive in practice that it would  
>> be easier
>> to list those (naïve artists) that have not used such processes of  
>> authorial
>> distantiation. What unites these artists is that they all concern  
>> themselves
>> with how self comes into being through the making and reading of art.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> On 10.05.06 16:39, Pall Thayer wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Also, regarding authorship - I don't think this is an issue at  
>>> all if
>>> the work can be successfully conceptualized. Authorship lies in the
>>> concept.
>>>
>>> Pall Thayer
>>>
>>
>>
>> Simon Biggs
>>
>> simon at littlepig.org.uk
>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>>
>> Professor of Digital Art, Sheffield Hallam University
>>
>> s.biggs at shu.ac.uk
>> http://www.shu.ac.uk/schools/cs/cri/adrc/research2/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> 'randomnumber = lastrandomnumber * 6364136223846793005 + 1'
>> To unsubscribe from eu-gene visit
>> http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
>>